Lorand Kedves
2 days ago (edited)
I am a scientist/engineer studying the root causes of this collapse of reasoning and communication for 15+ years. Someone like Mr. DiCaprio (or rather, Ms. Lawrence) plays in a more convincing way than I could ever present myself, because acting is their profession, not mine - I do things. I can only say that repeating the same message on the same level again and again is part of the problem and has nothing to do with the solution. Which could even have a chance if "famous alternative thinkers" did not waste all the resources on "delivering the message"...
So, true. “We really did have everything, didn’t we? I mean, when you think about it.” Climate change, a comet, COVID, ... - the actual subject does not matter. I know why you don't look up. I know the science that predicted this, almost exactly by date. Unfortunately, none of the movies of this kind will prepare you to deal with it.
Dacialastun2 days ago
So what are the causes of that collapse? You forgot to say that.........
Lorand Kedves2 days ago (edited)
@Dacialastun Yup, because here comes that scientific yada-yada. This is the part that allows finding a comet, predict its trajectory and perhaps, plan some actions. I wrote a ton about those things, but found nobody who would like to read. You know, the look up part that I miss from this movie.
Dacialastun2 days ago
So what are the causes of that collapse? You forgot to say that.........
Lorand Kedves2 days ago (edited)
@Dacialastun Yup, because here comes that scientific yada-yada. This is the part that allows finding a comet, predict its trajectory and perhaps, plan some actions. I wrote a ton about those things, but found nobody who would like to read. You know, the look up part that I miss from this movie.
If you happen to be my kind... I talk about informatics. From the neo-whorfian hypothesis and its connection with Douglas Engelbart on the technical/infrastructural side and Neil Postman with McLuhan, Licklider on the human effects (from individuals to mankind level) - and many-many other exceptional thinkers. On the other side, its business-oriented collapse through Kay, Jobs, the Google bros, the Tesla guy, and the continuous moaning since "The Wall", etc.
If not, well... it's all about opening up a global online communication network without being conscious about our ancient mental patterns and now obsolete world model. Mankind grew a global brain but is not ready for a headache of this magnitude. Like, you can do anything with a toy, but if you find yourself controlling a 30 ton excavator, you'd better forget not only about kidding but the "trial and error" approach. And it's not about censorship, "AI Ethics", the "Social Dilemma" or "Humane technology", but about growing up, both as individuals and the global human species.
Is this somewhat clear, or do I sound like a moron as always (like the movie scientists in that TV show)? Anyway, read The Voice of the Dolphins from Leo Szilard (1961) for a funny intro.
benz_ask2 days ago
I feel the don't look up supporters are take your vaccine and ask no questions..and the scientists that are fired because they reduce the fear and go against government agenda..this film is a double bluff trust me
Lorand Kedves2 days ago (edited)
@benz_ask Exactly, and thank you for illustrating what I mean the global headache.
benz_ask2 days ago
I feel the don't look up supporters are take your vaccine and ask no questions..and the scientists that are fired because they reduce the fear and go against government agenda..this film is a double bluff trust me
Lorand Kedves2 days ago (edited)
@benz_ask Exactly, and thank you for illustrating what I mean the global headache.
I took my vaccines together with my wife and sons and asked no questions. Not because what I feel or whom I trust, but because I am a scientist. I know that I do not know enough to understand or judge the answer of a scientist of a different field. On the other hand, there were multiple hospital doctors in my family, I worked at a pediatric clinic (as a nurse/first line computer support after my BSc in CS, good old days...) for more than a year. My feelings and trust do not come from soap operas or reality shows, but personally knowing people who make me proud to be a human being. I do what they say that I should do, anytime.
Take this one. You can be a master car mechanic, you still don't start arguing with a carpenter about how he should do his job. Because you are not a carpenter. And of course, you will trust a car mechanic in a carpenter shirt more than a real carpenter (especially when blaming them), because you understand what that fake carpenter says and don't understand the real one.
Do I "trust the system"? Of course not, because I could explain why it does not work, and this includes fueling the rage of the masses through fake conflicts. Easy and used for centuries, my dear Watson, but with global social media and trained IT experts like myself, it's the perfect storm. Keep this one. You know, trained dogs don't bite the stick, they grab the hand. But the real danger is the one that goes for the neck. And how can you protect yourself? Beat a hundred "hero dogs" with a blue stick, another hundred with a red one, and enjoy the show. They will not even bite the stick anymore, they will attack each other while ward off the trained and dangerous ones. You are safe. :-)
And please don't trust me. Read carefully, think, decide and then own your responsibility. You may make mistakes (just like me), but they should be yours, not mine.
Fiona Mulvey2 days ago
Rita Levi Montalcini predicted all of this, long before 15 years ago.
Lorand Kedves1 minute ago (edited)
@Fiona Mulvey Probably, but she had nothing to do with the actual process, and that 15+ years is only my work, not the ones I refer to. For example, see JCR Licklider: Libraries of the Future from 1964, the result of a two year state funded official research (please keep in mind, this was in deep cold war era when our current pop-science was impossible...) ;-)
Fiona Mulvey2 days ago
Rita Levi Montalcini predicted all of this, long before 15 years ago.
Lorand Kedves1 minute ago (edited)
@Fiona Mulvey Probably, but she had nothing to do with the actual process, and that 15+ years is only my work, not the ones I refer to. For example, see JCR Licklider: Libraries of the Future from 1964, the result of a two year state funded official research (please keep in mind, this was in deep cold war era when our current pop-science was impossible...) ;-)
This book is the exact, scientific forecast of the core features and our interaction with the internet, derived from the exponential growth of computing power and the amount of "transferrable" (objective, scientific) knowledge. Informatics used to be true science, not the playground of billionaires or hype-lords "surprised" by the inevitable side effects of their own business... :-)
„... the "system" of man's development and use of knowledge is regenerative. If a strong effort is made to improve that system, then the early results will facilitate subsequent phases of the effort, and so on, progressively, in an exponential crescendo. On the other hand, if intellectual processes and their technological bases are neglected, then goals that could have been achieved will remain remote, and proponents of their achievement will find it difficult to disprove charges of irresponsibility and autism.”
That means (translating complex statements to "Twitter-English"): blinded by cheap marbles of global IT, we will not be able to look up. Here we are.
Fiona Mulvey1 hour ago
@Lorand Kedves I am a scientist too, specialising in human perception and attention. Again, Nobel prizewinner in medicine and physiology Rita Levi Montalcini predicted all this decades ago, and tried to do something about it in the declaration of human duties. You should have a read, I can translate the neuroscience to twitter English, as you call it, if you need, too. I don't even have a twitter account and personally prefer primary source in general, but she wrote in Italian. Don't assume the people you are talking to are morons who speak only twitter English, there are thousands of scientists working on the same topic for years and you might learn something new.
Lorand Kedves1 second ago
@Fiona Mulvey Don't take it personal, please. From one short sentence how could I detect your level of education? Although checked that your name exists on Google Scholar, but that is just a hope, not a unique identification... ;-) I also think that while chatting on YouTube, Twitter-English translation is important for the average audience (just see the responses to my texts here).
However, I still hold my statement. I totally agree, many exceptional thinkers including scientists of many fields warned about the general collapse of communication, much more than I know about. However, the actual machinery that is now abused to the extreme against human sanity, is informatics. ... although we use "Computer Science" (which is a ridiculous simplification) or "Information Technology" (yet another), because when Ted Nelson coined that we should use this name just like physics or mathematics, it was already occupied by a company in the US, and this is what counts. Very funny and telling story...
So, I have my heroes in other areas, like Neil Postman or Konrad Lorenz, etc. and have no issue to add Professor Montalcini to the list. But I still say that the major issue today is that "informatics" had forgotten its own scientists and replaced with cult leaders and businessmen. The number one problem is "information poisoning", and the creators of communication tools and infrastructure have clear motivation to make the situation worse. On the other hand, without the fundamental concepts of individual reasoning and communication, we have no chance to solve any problem. This is a perfect storm, and while respecting the warnings of many wise people, I expect the solution from the experts on the field that causes the problem.
If you are interested and give an address, I can send you a short article with more details. Lund, HCI, artificial vision? Cool stuff, we may have a few common topics. Unfortunately, I dropped RG, academia.edu and other accounts together with my PhD when I could not find a single person in the AI community to discuss the first page of the Turing Test article... Maybe you would be the first one? :-)
